Dustin's Blade 450 3D Update

[Graham Lawrie]

If you want to try the 3gx on it i can send you one:)

[Tony]

I have no reason, at all, to believe that the gyro is faulty, Tony! No worries there! The problem has to be with something that I'm missing. It's odd though...I put his helicopter on my gyro test stand and the tail works just fine. Left and right tail movements. Then, I take the helicopter outside for a hover test and the tail won't hold and I have no right rudder authority.

I'll be working on it again on Monday.

Hey Derek, ditto pal, I've got the same problem. I think Dan is right though in saying the tail rod could be bending when under stress.. As mine is fine on the ground too..

[Tony]

If you want to try the 3gx on it i can send you one:)

Nice one Graham, I offered my zyx gyro, it's down to Dustin really, he wants to keep it FB.

[Derek]

Yeah, Dustin is pretty insistent on keeping this helicopter flybarred. I'm not entirely sure why.

Graham...how much money would you ask for your 3gx?

[Tony]

Derek, check out my tail fix, could be same probs as the blade

[Derek]

I took Dustin's Blade 450 3D out for another test today. I did take a small screwdriver with me so that I could slide the servo up or down the tail boom. I made an adjustment, based on the results that I had last time I tested the helicopter. Now...the helicopter spools up nice and smooth (just as it did last time) but I have no rudder. I had the helicopter light on the skids (training gear) and I could move the rudder stick all the way left and right but nothing would happen. The tail was holding solid but no left or right movement. I looked at the servo arm, while moving the rudder stick left and right, and I could see that the servo arm was moving very slightly but not enough to turn the helicopter at all. This is a brand new servo.

With the helicopter on the ground, and not spooling up, the tail slider moves as it should when given stick input. The direction correction moves as it should. However, when it's spooled up and about to lift off, I get no rudder movement.

Any ideas?

[KevG]

Do you have the gyro limits set Derek,

[Derek]

Yep! Since you have mentioned that, I will surely double check...just to be sure, but I am confident that I did that.

When the helicopter is resting on the ground, I can move the rudder stick left and right and the tail moves from the left to the right. However, when it's spinning...no left or right. It's just odd!

[Tony]

That is weird Derek. I wonder if it would make any difference in rate mode, I'm presuming your in HH mode...

[Derek]

I dont think that Rate Mode would make any difference versus Heading Hold Mode....I'm gonna mess with it again in a few minutes with some testing in the garage.

[Tony]

Ok mate, keep us updated..

[Derek]

I will do that! I spoke with Dustin tonight and he is still asking me to keep it here so that I can test it. He is understanding that the weather, for me now, is very unpredictable. I'm also trying to find a place that will simply let me test the helicopter indoors. Hopefully!!!

[pvolcko]

I want to say it sounds like gyro tail gain is way too low.

When you test without blade spin up and the tail servo moves, does it move quickly or is it greatly delayed/slow? Also, make sure your gyro setting isn't tied to your throttle hold switch. IF it is, and you want it that way, make sure the TH off position setting for gyro gain is where you actually want it and not 0.

[Derek]

I want to say it sounds like gyro tail gain is way too low.

When you test without blade spin up and the tail servo moves, does it move quickly or is it greatly delayed/slow? Also, make sure your gyro setting isn't tied to your throttle hold switch. IF it is, and you want it that way, make sure the TH off position setting for gyro gain is where you actually want it and not 0.

Ok Paul...I'm not doubting what you are saying. You are vastly more experienced than I am. I'm just trying to make sense of what you are saying.

If, while the helicopter is powered up but at rest, I can move the rudder stick from left to right and the tail servo does move left to right but then when the helicopter is light on the training gear, about to lift off, and I move the rudder stick left and right but get no servo movement, how can this be a gyro gain issue?

I really wish I could have gotten video from today's effort but the rain came so quickly. I had the camera with me but the rain came so quickly. The sun was out and the ground was dry. Temps were around 53 degrees and the wind was topping out around 10mph. Quite a gorgeous day. About 15 minutes after I had gotten to the flying spot, the rain came and it's still raining right now...about 9 hours after today's test effort. Ugh!!!

I am trying to find a place, indoors, that will simply let me do some testing and if/when I can get a to a hover, perhaps they'd let me go about 6-8 feet high. I'm hoping!

[pvolcko]

It's just a guess. On the ground the heli will not move at all so the tail servo will move no matter what. But in the air if the gain is way low then it will move but very slowly.

I'm really just shooting in the dark. I have no reason to think it except that I recall running into something similar sounding and it ended up being a gain setting problem.

Could also be that there is some binding in the tail under load which is causing the servo to have limited motion. Does the servo get hot after the test flight with no movement of the servo?

[Tony]

This might sound off par a bit but could it be lack of power to the servo, voltage/current drop under load, is the ESC/BEC handling the current requirements for those new servos? Just a thought!

[Derek]

It's just a guess. On the ground the heli will not move at all so the tail servo will move no matter what. But in the air if the gain is way low then it will move but very slowly.

I'm really just shooting in the dark. I have no reason to think it except that I recall running into something similar sounding and it ended up being a gain setting problem.

Could also be that there is some binding in the tail under load which is causing the servo to have limited motion. Does the servo get hot after the test flight with no movement of the servo?

yeah, without proper video, shots in the dark is about all you can do, lol.

Dustin has the Spektrum DX6i so I've been using my DX6i so that I can simply share the settings with him when I send the helicopter back to him. Now...the Gyro gain is in Rate Mode below 50% and in Heading Hold Mode above 50%. The current gyro gain setting is 75.5%. Could there be some binding somewhere from the tail servo to the tail slider? Yes, I suppose it's possible. I don't think it's likely but it is possible. I will have to wait until Wednesday to check on this because I have to work the next two nights. Does the servo get hot after tests? I honestly never thought to check the servo temperature, so I can't say yes or no.

I have written down a couple of notes to remind me to specifically check these things that you mentioned. Thanks Paul!

[Derek]

This might sound off par a bit but could it be lack of power to the servo, voltage/current drop under load, is the ESC/BEC handling the current requirements for those new servos? Just a thought!

hmmm, that is another thought that I never considered. Dustin has replaced the stock servos with Align DS415m servo. I replaced a faulty tail servo with the recommended Eflight tail servo. The Align servos are metal gear. The Eflight servo is not metal gear. I'm sure there is a voltage consumption difference. I do have a voltage tool that I bought from HK that will test and tell me the voltage consumption from a servo. I will surely check on this, too.

If this is indeed the culprit, we'll need to add an external BEC and disable the ESC's internal BEC. Easy enough!!! I have an external BEC on my helicopters....even my 450.

[Tony]

i had an external BEC on my blade to handle the extra current requirements, i couldnt disable the esc's supply so i had to cut the positive wire to the RX. the BEC supply i fed into the Bind port.

[Derek]

I actually had to search around the forum to find this thread, lol. If there is a more appropriate place for this thread, please feel free to move it.

So...I made an adjustment to the tail of Dustin's Blade 450 3D helicopter. I also noticed that one of the screws on the tail was very tight, possibly causing a bind. I loosened that a bit. I took the helicopter out today for a test and nearly froze. Wow it was cold today. Unfortunately, I'm getting the same result as the last time when I tested the tail. The helicopter will spool up nicely...very smooth. It will then spin about 180 degrees and then hold solid but the tail won't move when I give rudder input while the head is spinning. I'll flip Throttle Hold and shut it down. As the helicopter comes to a rest, I have tail movement again. Very frustrating!

However, I did have my flying buddy run my video camera for me today. I do have video. Unfortunately, I can't upload it right now because my computer is still in my daughters room and she's asleep. I'll post the video tomorrow.